Focus on Fellowships: Cathy Linh Che of Kundiman

"I think it's really difficult in many ways to hang on to art as a value when we live in such a brutally capitalist society that does not value the arts the way that it should, and it does not redistribute funding in a way that really should honor artists. So, artists are often coming from backgrounds that are fraught with trauma. Just making the space of a retreat available to people is very meaningful for artists." 

LitNYS: Can you tell me a little bit about what you do at Kundiman? 

CLC: I am the Executive Director and so my main functions are around overseeing programs and operations, as well as coordinating with my Deputy Director, Kyle Luther, on communications and development efforts.

LitNYS: Can you tell me a little bit about how the fellowship program started at the organization and how it fits into the organization as a whole?

CLC: Our fellowship program is our flagship program. The retreat is a 5 day living experience where the poets and fiction writers convene with 6 faculty members — 3 poetry faculty members and 3 fiction faculty members — during a time of intensive generative writing, craft classes, and community building.

The hope is that the bonds that are forged there can support the writers throughout their lives and careers. We started our retreat program and the nonprofit in 2004, and we are modeled after Cave Canem, a home for Black poets. In our earliest days, Cave really helped to mentor and provide models for how we could host our retreat.  We are still in strong community with Cave.

We expanded the retreat to include fiction writers because in the first 10 years it was just for poets. That is a change that we opened upon hearing different fiction writers coming up to us saying, “Oh, I'd love to be part of Kundiman,” and we would have to tell them, “No, we're for poets only.” 

So, the opening up [to fiction] was in response to community members who really wanted more space to do different genres. 

LitNYS: When you say retreat, do you host it in a place other than New York City, or is it based in New York City? 

CLC: Our retreat is hosted at Fordham University in the Bronx on the beautiful Rose Hill campus.

LitNYS: What are the values of the fellowship?

CLC: Our organizational official core values are generosity, inclusion, courage, and that does extend over to the retreat, though I would say, the retreat also has other elements to make it a space of radical welcome. 

Another aspect of the retreat is deep listening. When I say that there’s a lot of generative writing, I think we are trying to take people's processes and introduce new possibilities and new ways to approach writing that might not be how they typically or historically have approached their writing practices. And that feels really important because we want the space to be generative and not just generative in that moment, but generative over a lifetime as they sit down and question what is possible in how to make their way forward as artists.

LitNYS: What would you say are some of the challenges that you have faced in hosting fellowships? These can be rewards, but we all know that challenges do arise.

CLC: On a basic level, there are a number of challenges. One is that in order to create an intimate space where a lot of people can convene, we have to keep the retreat numbers fairly small because we want to take care of people. 

We have to limit the numbers of people that we accept into this space. We have 36 writers, 18 are returning from the previous years, and then 18 are new, so that means that at the retreat we're in a sacred space. But, it is not one that is able to include as many people as we'd like to have included there. I'll give you an example: This past year we had 700 applications for those 18 spots with less than 4%, maybe even 3%, acceptance rate. Everybody's extremely talented and very worthy of acceptance into this retreat space. The challenge is: How do we create spaces for a community? That's where our other programs come into play. 

We have writing workshops, craft classes, and regional groups, so that people can build community. Many of these programs are low-cost or free. 

Another challenge is that even in spaces that are meant to be inclusive and safer than potentially other spaces in the world, harm does happen in these spaces. This is something that we are proactively thinking about. That is a challenge that will happen at any organization because people are incredibly complex. One personal set of norms is not someone else's, so we're introducing community agreements. This year we have a mental health consultant who will be at the retreat space to help in advance of the retreat, to help observe this space, to help support any challenges that arise, and to help support in the aftermath in terms of reflection and thinking about how we can improve going forward.

LitNYS: I really respect that. What would you say to organizations that are thinking of developing their own fellowships? What would you say to encourage them to take on this project?

CLC: I would say that people should go for it, and I think intentionality is important. Create as best as you can the most intentional design when you approach it.

Ask for advice from those who have created retreats in the past because they have years of experience in making these spaces. They have trial and error to draw from. Recognize that you start somewhere, and you continue to improve. Part of the improvement is going to be coming from humility, and you really have to have a sense of deep listening because the world around you, the community around you is constantly changing. Their needs are constantly changing, so it's important to be able to move aside your own intentions, ego, and any sense of, “You know I'm here helping you out.” “I'm here doing this hard work. Are you appreciating me enough?” 

I think coming from a space of real generosity could go a long way, and coming from a place of a willingness to adapt with the times and change, as change happens, is also really essential while still holding on to essential values. The hope is that the central values are going to continue to endure and support. You know the mission and the cause. 

I think it's really difficult in many ways to hang on to art as a value when we live in such a brutally capitalist society that does not value the arts the way that it should, and it does not redistribute funding in a way that really should honor artists. So, artists are often coming from backgrounds that are fraught with trauma. Artists are also oftentimes financially very precarious. If they are not financially precarious, they typically still have to work a job, and that squeezes out any time. Just making the space of a retreat available to people is very meaningful for artists. 

As a whole, people are just searching for ways to find community, and they're searching for ways to continue their practice, deepen it, grow, be inspired, and change. I hope that more and more fellowship programs out there are encouraged and that people feel encouraged to open those spaces up to support others.

LitNYS: What do you think is most rewarding about hosting the fellowship?

CLC: In 2010, I was a Kundiman fellow myself. I was an emerging writer and had just graduated from an MFA program. I was quite burned out on New York City, the scene, and all of these things had me feeling quite exhausted. I came to Kundiman very skeptical and I left relieved of some of my skepticism. It was a community that continued to grow with me over time and it demonstrated incredible generosity. I think what's rewarding is knowing that 13 years later the impact that this community, retreat, and fellowship has had on me is incredibly profound.

It can be very transformative, you know. The hope is that whatever I have received, I can give back. The reward might be that I can pave the way and give this new cohort, this new class of writers, an experience that might be just as vexing, or just as inspiring, just as nourishing as I have received over the years as well.